‘India has a
problem’
MUMBAI, March 16, 2003
By ANIL THAKRANEY
Dr Praveen Togadia, Vishwa Hindu
Parishad’s aggro front-man, fashionably titled its ‘International General
Secretary’, is on a mission to spread the word of Hindutva across the
country...
Sir, what brings you to Bombay?
(Immediately goes on the offensive.) Why, why I should not come to
Mumbai? Is it not a part of Hindustan?
Oh, oh… my apologies, did not mean
it that way. I asked, what is your work agenda for coming here?
India has three major kendras. Political, Delhi, cultural, Benares and
economical, Mumbai. So I have come to address the economic capital of India on
exactly what the VHP wants to do, our future plans. To explain our hurdles, and
also what we want the people of Bharat to do.
So what specifically is your message
for the people of the city?
I would like to communicate that we are being treated like second class
citizens.
Who is this ‘we’?
Hindus. I represent Hindus.
But sir, you have not been elected
by the Hindus to represent their cause.
See, nobody expresses the problems, sentiments of the Hindu society other than
the VHP.
But yours is not a democratically
elected entity.
Are you saying, except elected political parties, nobody has the right to speak
on behalf of society? We express concerns, try to solve the problems of the
Hindu society. For example, no one else is taking up the cause of cow
protection.
Yeah, but isn’t that the job of
the elected, ruling government of the day?
Are you saying, in democracy, everything should be left to the government?
Should the citizens go to sleep?
No, but the concerned citizens
should first ask of the government to get involved in issues, especially the
sensitive ones. Else we can all flout parties for whatever causes we want, and
take independent decisions. But my question is, you don’t have a mandate from
the Hindus of India to represent them. It seems to be a job you have taken upon
yourself.
Representation is always claimed by
your acts and deeds. We are the people who have raised the Ramjanmabhoomi
issue. We are the people fighting against conversions. We are the people
providing education to tribals in 5,000 villages. These are the things which
have given us credibility.
Back to Bombay. Are you here to talk
only to the Hindus of Bombay? Or, also to the Muslims, Christians and other
communities?
I address total people, everybody. In fact, at tomorrow’s presentation, I am
specifically addressing the Muslim community.
And what do you wish to say to them?
That we have to accept that we have a problem. Problems that lie in Islam’s
ideology, and the Hindu civilisation. We need to address problems of why
thousands of our temples were destroyed.
But that possibly happened 400 years
ago. What can the current generation of Muslims do about it?
No, I am talking about today, 150 temples have been destroyed in the Kashmir
valley. I am talking of the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindus in the valley
that is currently happening. Yesterday’s bomb blast in Mumbai is not 400 years
old.
But sir, we yet don’t know who is
responsible for the Mulund blast. The enquiry has only just begun. How are you
assuming the Muslims did it?
In almost all terrorist attacks, the culprits identified are Muslims. Whether it
is from Pakistan or from Bharat. Tell me, who attacked India’s Parliament? Who
attacked Akshardham? Who was responsible for Godhra? So given that, certainly
for the Bombay blast, I would assume they were jehadi Muslims.
Yes, but they could well be
Pakistani ISI agents. Do you see no difference between an Indian Muslim and a
Pakistani Muslim?
Look, I am not saying all Muslims are against India, that each and every Muslim
is a fundamentalist. But tell me, whenever we are seeing a terrorist, why is he
a Muslim only? So, it is the duty of the Muslim society.
Yes, but can an Indian Muslim take
the fall for what Muslims from the rest of the world do?
OK, agreed we don’t have evidence of one particular incident in Mumbai, but
you are not accepting so many chronological incidents of the past. You are
forgetting that the Kashmiri Muslims, who are in the majority in that state,
have become terrorists.
Yeah, but what must the Bombay
Muslim do about that?
The jihadi philosophy of all Muslims is the same, whether they are from
Bosnia or Kashmir or Mumbai or Coimbatore. It is the same intolerant,
uncivilised, anti–democratic, anti–pluralistic, jihadi policy that is
creating problems for humanity.
So you cannot see Mumbai in isolation… you have to see it in reference to
global terrorism.
But isn’t it possible that a
majority of the Muslims in India have no role to play in terrorism? I mean, don’t
you consider that could be a possibility?
Do you think terrorists who attacked our Parliament could do so without local
support?
But sir, one cannot hold an entire
community responsible for the deeds of a few. Still, what is your core message
to them?
I will show a formula for a long-term Hindu-Muslim peaceful co-existence.
So you have a formula. What is it?
Sorry, I shall only speak about it at the presentation tomorrow.
Next. Do you support the Allahabad
High Court order, one that has asked archaeologists to excavate the disputed
site in Ayodhya to check if there is evidence of a temple there?
VHP has already welcomed it.
But don’t you think it is a bit of
a faulty process? Some debris cannot for sure tell us whether a temple did or
did not exist.
There is a funny thing about Indian secularists and communists… they always
try to find out a thesis on how to humiliate Hindu society. First, you people
said there is no evidence of the temple in Ayodhya, and now when the court has
asked for excavation, why the fear? All along, the secularists and Muslims were
misguiding the people of the country, and now that there is evidence, they are
getting scared.
Sir, my question is: what if no
evidence is found? Will you drop the demand of a temple at the site?
When I reach the bank of the river, I will decide.
No, but if you believe in the
judgment, simple logic tells us: no evidence of a temple equals no temple.
Don’t talk logic with me… by using logic, I can prove you to be an animal. (The
doc seems to have this wild habit; he had once tried to equate Sonia Gandhi with
an Italian bitch.)
Whoa… me?
Yes, you! I am saying, if you see logically, any human being can be proved to be
an animal. So that’s not the way to do things.Logic is not an answer for
history. Better go to school and college and teach logic. (At this stage, the
coterie burst into laughter. So does Dr Togadia.)
Right. You have gone on record to
say that the Indian madrassas teach the kids to be terrorists.
Yes, the madrassas are teaching jihad. It is the Afghan madrassas
that produced the Taliban. The curriculum of an Indian madrassa and a
Pakistani madrassa, and an Afghani madrassa cannot be different.
I am asking, how are you so sure
that is the case? Have you ever bothered to visit a madrassa to see what happens
there?
No. But we know a Maulvi Umarji is the creation of a madrassa. Today one
Maulvi Umarji, tomorrow a thousand.
Do you think we should attack
Pakistan?
As long as there are terrorists in Pakistan, there will be attacks on India. So
we should attack Pakistan and cut it into so many pieces, that not a single
piece is able to support a state sponsored terrorist policy.
But you say this in the knowledge
that they now have nukes too, and an attack can have a devastating result for
India?
Either we take the risk of nuclear weapons, or continue to be killed at the
hands of terrorists.
But aren’t talks a better way out?
I think we should go for war against Pakistan.
Onto Godhra. Do you believe rape of
innocent women, as a revenge for Godhra killings, is justified?
Not a single rape case has been established in Gujarat.
But we have heard of reports being
filed.
Please wait for the results of the Shah Commission, please follow a democratic
process, let’s see their findings first.
But what if it’s proved that it
happened? Would you not be angry about it?
Why are you so impatient? Wait for the Shah Commission’s findings. Why should
we assume anything? (Really angry now). The reason you are not willing to
wait, is that you have decided to blame the Hindu society. So you secularists
are part of a jihadi nexus. It is a canard you are running, because you
secularists are in nexus with jihadi forces.
(At this point, an agitated Dr
Togadia rises from his chair, abruptly ending the interview, leaving many
questions unanswered. His coterie rises in sync too, and announces that the
interview is done. I follow the group to the next room, where Dr Togadia is set
to address his party workers. I am politely asked to leave the room, ‘immediately’.
On asking why so, someone gently mutters, "Because you are an
outsider.")
http://www.chalomumbai.com/news/city/2003/march/47500.htm
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